Video index
1. Call Meeting to Order
4. Communications
7:05
2. Roll Call
Roll call (10 Present, 0 Absent, 0 Excused)
3. Public Participation [Per Town Council Rules, this segment of the meeting shall not exceed thirty (30) minutes unless extended by the Mayor, with the consent of the majority of the Town Council.]
4. Communications
5. Town Manager's Report [Per Town Council Rules, this segment of the meeting shall not exceed ten (10) minutes unless extended by the Mayor, with the consent of the majority of the Council.]
Requested that this be held in Reg. meeting
6. Items for Discussion
A. South Windsor Board of Education Budget Presentation
B. Office of Emergency Medical Services and South Windsor Ambulance Corps.
Larry Gorman and Leonard Garcia, EMS Branch Chief.
Bazzano - need for paramedic services in South Windsor. response time with paramedics. Does the Town have the ability to get paramedic services. When we talk about levels of service, give me protocol of 911 call to dispatch? Larry - The Town does have paramedic services and response time is vry good. Ambulance gets there, Parmedic intercept. this is a tiered effect. when paramedics come on board. If a paramedic comes first they have to start at the beginning level what is done in a tiered effect. The only place going to save a life is in the hospital. Most Towns go with intercept which the Town has and there is no cost to the Town. SW Ambulance Corps. pays paramedics for their services. Bazzano - if parmedic shows up, they are obviously going to do things that you could not? Larry - cardiac monitoring whcih can be done while goin gto the hospital. Bazzano - transport is that different type of license? Larry - same level as ones that come on board with SW. SW meets the paramedic in an area where they intercept (come on board) with SW. Bazzano - how many standard calls and how are ALS calls Larry - 600-1800 calls per year, 40% are ALS. We get calls lift assists which could creat us from missing a cardiac call. Since 2005 we have had 818 lift assists which we can not charge and have had to cover the price. Bazzano - how many calls do you miss? Larry - do not have that exact number which will be hard to find. Bazzano - what happens if I have chest pains, ALS and you show up, how do I get billed? Larry - if medicare it is a bundle bill. we are governed by State. Bazzano -d o we have any calls where ALS is immediately dispatched? Larry - goes through primary source area and then to ALS but think they go out at the same time. Bazzano - SW has two ambulances/ Larry - yes Bazzano - took time for someone to come, where was the other ambulance? Larry - there are certain days that we run two ambulances. there are nights there are no calls. we have tried to track it. There are time when there are a lot of calls and days when there are none Bazzsano average time Larry - 5.4 and 6 1/2 minutes. Bazzano - how does it compare? Bazzano - how is ALS time Larry - depends where they are located. Bazzano - that seems to be concern of residents. is there an time they are contracted to stay near SW. Larry - they usually post on the town lines Bazzano - they could be posted on the East Hartford side? Larry - they could - Vernon, South Windsor, Ellington, etc. Bazzano - could htey be out in Coventry? larry - yes and that is when intercept is important. Bazzano - in a situation, how many times have there been an intercept or we have not gotten ALS and lost an individual Larry - very infrequent Bazzano - paramedics service would hate to be that person who needs it and can not get it. I woudl like paramedic service Larry - since 1981 we have had many saves. 80% save - paramedic service has nto been anything but an asset. There are certain protocols that need to be followed. There are probably 7 major categories (cariace, res, stroke, shock, diabetes, trauma) those are ones that you want paramedics Bazzano - can paramedics be called before ambulance? Larry - primary service area woudl still be called.
Yagaloff - These are not personal disagreements, we are asking policy questions for the Council. ALS is advanced life support and we offer basic life support. Why don't we have advanced life support. If someone is have a heart attack and the paramedics can communicate with the hospital where BLS can't do much about that. ALS is better and it would be better for us to have ALS for all residents. higher rate for saving people. 75-80% people die from heart attacks. why don't we have ALS and we need to figure a way to make it work Larry - dollars is the big issue. I had done an assessment several years ago to keep ALS unit going in Town. 500,000 to 700,000 to get going. Yagaloff - fundamentally if we say want ALS, next step would be to pay for this, could go to legislature, change legislature. we need to sit down with you and figure out how we will get ALS in South Windsor. If we want ot get to ALS we have to all say we want to and then sit down and figure out how to get there. Larry - we went through a gap analysis. The unfortunate answer to that is dollars. Len - the reimbursement issue you will never get to point revenue will off set the cost. Even if you had paramedic in town, model are different. If you are believing you wil move to paramedic level and think you will have influx of cash, that does not happen. Our office is ready to assist you.
recess at 8:01 p.m.
reconvene at 8:04 p
Bazzano- to me this is a policy decision - whether ALS is necessary in Town. The cost is 5-7,000 Larry - you can't do that without 7-14 people. I have asked Marge from Manchester Hospital to come. Bazzano - you said SW holds BLS license, who holds ALS? Larry - ASM Bazzano - could you put ALS in Town Larry - given the money we could but could not giv eyou a time table, at least 2 years and then go through time of precept. If is not an easy process. Do not think would be done in 2-3 years. Not an easy task Len - you are correct on some parts. if the town would become paramedic services, there are two portions to be a parmedic. have to go to hospital and meet minimum delivery. it depnds on the model. if you hire all new people would be about 2 1/2 to 3 years. and depends on equiopment Bazzano - any person can be hired a paramediic? Len - can get certification Bazzano - could you hire people who are paramedics Len - yes you can - prove that there is a need - review your application - hopsital would have to provide the necessity, Chief and Town Manager - not an impossible task can get done. It is the will of the community but iti s also be a need to have additional people from other towns. Towns send help and they receive help. Bazzano - certificate of need, so ASM holds out license? primary service designation area Bazzano - if we decided we wanted to go and have a need for paramedic service, would ASM argue that? Len - yes they hold the franchise. if Chief Officer can prove that there is a necessity - entitled to hearing. There has not been a PSA taken away. Bazzano - so this would go before your office, so if ASM was to come forward and we don't find SW has this need Len - yes then a hearin gofficer would hear the case. Bazzano - I have a problem with that Len - gave background of this information. Bazzano - so we could have a paramedic in town but we would not need Len - ASM could have first right of refusal Bazzano - transport - if we have paramedic Len - could transport - if you decided had revenue to start - sit down with ASM to discuss Bazzano - do they do that anywhere else? Len - yes Bazzano -
recess 8:17 to go to Regular meeting
reconvened at 8:24
Anwar - challenge facing - need to look at ourselves in 2017 and beyond. The demographics of our town are changing. The number of students are decreasing and the number of seniors are increasing. Is there data out there that tells us when ALS becomes more important? Larry - ALS does not have boundaries at this time. We have had calls for everyone. I think you are correct as you get older the need may be more necessary. There are a lot of assisted living facilities for services. Would be hard pressed to give you an age. Anwar - there is data that shows the need for services. Len - the demographics different based on the community. There are online services that could be looked at. International (of Fire Chiefs) - but this is town specific. Anwar - The Tc is asking tht we need to think for 5-10 years down the road. Need to make policy changes. This is the time to have conversations. The terms BLS - what can BLS airway management, cpr, oxygen, allowed to give hefferin, there are things that area little advanced. Anwar - when trying to save, airway, breathing, - always start from BLS even if they are a paramedic. Larry - tiered effect that was talked about earlier. Anwar - each minute is critical - is there something that can be done. upgrade of services can be reviewed further. Larry - public awareness, community cpr training
Prague - the cost going to full time ambulance service would have profound effect on services of the town. How many people have died if we had ALS service over the last 10 years. have been serving 30 years how many volunteer? Larry - 1981 to 2002 Prague - lowest people paid 12.00 per hour. - we are into regionalization. if there was a large fire, other towns would be involved. this is the same type of thing. All the towns need to help eachother. Personal agendas shoudl not be used to promote this. for high volume times may want a parmedic. need to tread lightly in what we do.
Havens - Councillor Yagaloff - just is looking to what can be in the future. This is something that we could work towards and should not critize other people want.
Beaulieu - len - your own service would be 2 1/2 to 3 years. if you want to get someone who is already trained would be shorter period. Beaulieu - as ASM is sent out do we know their work history and how they have performed? Len - based on the fact - licensed paramedic service so they meet the state - Manchester Hopsital also has ongoing training and they have been to. if you hired your own folks they would not have the experience that others may have. the basic paramedic trainign is less than 50% of the training. There is a lot of on the job traiing. Beaulieu - ASM sitting in vacinity, who is in that in terms of experience? Len - the way the system is set up they have 8-10 hour day - the level of expeireince is not able to be tracked. there are protocols in place where minimum standards are required. Beaulieu - could have ASM could have two people who have two years or 2 people who have twenty years Mar - there are 20 of us - we sponsor 19 services - e have the regionalization - we operate under the mandates- 9-11 paramedics all over the place. there are extreme skills, continued education. if there is an issue we collaborate. There are stringent protocols and training to get to paramedics.
McCann - the state granting the licenses, based on need? Len - yes McCann - certificate of need is BLS services provided by SW - ALS Len - certificate need happened in the past McCann - in order to have SW to ALS that would be based on new certificate of need and would take away need for AMS and they could challenge Len - SW could go through certificate of need, the issue would be response of call - the two services could co-exist. usually come out with agreement. McCann - is SWAC ALS level could the area be restricted? no McCAnn - coudl go to calls McCann - may face same problems in another town when call in sw comes in? Len - yes that could also happen today Larry - we do respond to Town of Manchester and East HArtford, Windsor, we do have mutual aid agreements. That exists even today. McCann - could have more of the publci cpr trained. There is training provided by SW Ambulance Corp, Thursday, 6pm company 3
Snyder - this was very enlightening. Thanked the State - I have never heard anything bad about Ambulance Corps. in SW. If Larry see's anything that needs to be addressed, please come back to Town Council. Services are great.
Bazzano - have question I will email to Matt and have him forward to Larry. Deputy Chief Riggs, do you have copy of incident at Elssworth? times, who was called, responded? Riggs - 12/10/11 7:50 p.m. - first call - ASM dispatched at 7:52 p.m. - they were in route 7:57 - arrived 7:59 Bazzano - 911 was dialed, SW dispatch picked up - tried SW Ambulance first, yuo Riggs -arrival time 8:11 p.m. Bazzano - 20 minutes before ASM got there Larry - we were out on another call. ASM will autotically go if they know SW busy. Bazzano - do they tell how long they wil be Riggs - they do not give location. we did ask dispatch they would find out. Larry - when we respond we always say were we are responding from.
Chairman David Joy came forward to present the BOE proposed budget as shown in attached exhibit A
Mayor - the sooner we get questions to BOE the better to be ready for 4/3 Joint Mtg.
Yagaloff - thank you for the presentation from the BOE and Dr. Carter and her staff. From the initial budget there have been changes. I am inclined to support. Spending increase and what the gap is. ARA money and concessions from teachers. What would be the gap (dollar) the additional cost to the taxpayers in order to fund it. Last year's budget was good and this year I am inclined to also support the budget. Joy - seems like the information would have to come to the TM. Mr. Galligan has the budget. Delnicki - if the public has questions that they feel are important please send email so those questions can be addressed at the next meeting.
Snyder - have questions submitted to Clerk? Mayor - yes that would be good. Snyder - is this infomration on the web Joy - now that the Town Council has seen it it will be put on the website.
Havens - do not see any problems with budget. You made the TC's job simple.
7. Executive Session
A. To discuss three (3) possible tax assessment agreements which would result in disclosure of public records or information contained therein which is exempt from disclosure at this time pursuant to Connecticut General Statutes §1-210(b)(1) and §1-210(b)(5)(B).
B. To discuss a personnel issue, (Agreement between the Town of South Windsor Job Classification and Fringe Benefit Description for Non-Bargaining Unit Members).
Delnicki - certificate of need established around 9/11? TM - would hav eto go back and look. They look at level of care and dedcide Delnicki - paramedic would be great. could have paramedic call in town but they could be on call in another community even if call came through SW. having a paramedic unit does not guarantee that it will be in town. $500,000 - learning curve - Marge Latish was thanked. appreciated what you brought here tonight. Marge - if you need me at any time can contact us. we are always here to teach. Delnicki - Middlesex - hospital paramedic service. Delnicki - is that something that you will be considering ? Marge - no - there are various models and it is always what your town needs. Delnicki - woul dlike more dialogue on this issue. Roseann Williams, Deputy Chief Riggs,
take up on Regular meeting
8. Adjournment
McCann, Snyder, unanimous 9:04 p.m.
Mar 19, 2012 Town Council Work Session
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1. Call Meeting to Order
4. Communications
7:05
2. Roll Call
Roll call (10 Present, 0 Absent, 0 Excused)
3. Public Participation [Per Town Council Rules, this segment of the meeting shall not exceed thirty (30) minutes unless extended by the Mayor, with the consent of the majority of the Town Council.]
4. Communications
5. Town Manager's Report [Per Town Council Rules, this segment of the meeting shall not exceed ten (10) minutes unless extended by the Mayor, with the consent of the majority of the Council.]
Requested that this be held in Reg. meeting
6. Items for Discussion
A. South Windsor Board of Education Budget Presentation
B. Office of Emergency Medical Services and South Windsor Ambulance Corps.
Larry Gorman and Leonard Garcia, EMS Branch Chief.
Bazzano - need for paramedic services in South Windsor. response time with paramedics. Does the Town have the ability to get paramedic services. When we talk about levels of service, give me protocol of 911 call to dispatch? Larry - The Town does have paramedic services and response time is vry good. Ambulance gets there, Parmedic intercept. this is a tiered effect. when paramedics come on board. If a paramedic comes first they have to start at the beginning level what is done in a tiered effect. The only place going to save a life is in the hospital. Most Towns go with intercept which the Town has and there is no cost to the Town. SW Ambulance Corps. pays paramedics for their services. Bazzano - if parmedic shows up, they are obviously going to do things that you could not? Larry - cardiac monitoring whcih can be done while goin gto the hospital. Bazzano - transport is that different type of license? Larry - same level as ones that come on board with SW. SW meets the paramedic in an area where they intercept (come on board) with SW. Bazzano - how many standard calls and how are ALS calls Larry - 600-1800 calls per year, 40% are ALS. We get calls lift assists which could creat us from missing a cardiac call. Since 2005 we have had 818 lift assists which we can not charge and have had to cover the price. Bazzano - how many calls do you miss? Larry - do not have that exact number which will be hard to find. Bazzano - what happens if I have chest pains, ALS and you show up, how do I get billed? Larry - if medicare it is a bundle bill. we are governed by State. Bazzano -d o we have any calls where ALS is immediately dispatched? Larry - goes through primary source area and then to ALS but think they go out at the same time. Bazzano - SW has two ambulances/ Larry - yes Bazzano - took time for someone to come, where was the other ambulance? Larry - there are certain days that we run two ambulances. there are nights there are no calls. we have tried to track it. There are time when there are a lot of calls and days when there are none Bazzsano average time Larry - 5.4 and 6 1/2 minutes. Bazzano - how does it compare? Bazzano - how is ALS time Larry - depends where they are located. Bazzano - that seems to be concern of residents. is there an time they are contracted to stay near SW. Larry - they usually post on the town lines Bazzano - they could be posted on the East Hartford side? Larry - they could - Vernon, South Windsor, Ellington, etc. Bazzano - could htey be out in Coventry? larry - yes and that is when intercept is important. Bazzano - in a situation, how many times have there been an intercept or we have not gotten ALS and lost an individual Larry - very infrequent Bazzano - paramedics service would hate to be that person who needs it and can not get it. I woudl like paramedic service Larry - since 1981 we have had many saves. 80% save - paramedic service has nto been anything but an asset. There are certain protocols that need to be followed. There are probably 7 major categories (cariace, res, stroke, shock, diabetes, trauma) those are ones that you want paramedics Bazzano - can paramedics be called before ambulance? Larry - primary service area woudl still be called.
Yagaloff - These are not personal disagreements, we are asking policy questions for the Council. ALS is advanced life support and we offer basic life support. Why don't we have advanced life support. If someone is have a heart attack and the paramedics can communicate with the hospital where BLS can't do much about that. ALS is better and it would be better for us to have ALS for all residents. higher rate for saving people. 75-80% people die from heart attacks. why don't we have ALS and we need to figure a way to make it work Larry - dollars is the big issue. I had done an assessment several years ago to keep ALS unit going in Town. 500,000 to 700,000 to get going. Yagaloff - fundamentally if we say want ALS, next step would be to pay for this, could go to legislature, change legislature. we need to sit down with you and figure out how we will get ALS in South Windsor. If we want ot get to ALS we have to all say we want to and then sit down and figure out how to get there. Larry - we went through a gap analysis. The unfortunate answer to that is dollars. Len - the reimbursement issue you will never get to point revenue will off set the cost. Even if you had paramedic in town, model are different. If you are believing you wil move to paramedic level and think you will have influx of cash, that does not happen. Our office is ready to assist you.
recess at 8:01 p.m.
reconvene at 8:04 p
Bazzano- to me this is a policy decision - whether ALS is necessary in Town. The cost is 5-7,000 Larry - you can't do that without 7-14 people. I have asked Marge from Manchester Hospital to come. Bazzano - you said SW holds BLS license, who holds ALS? Larry - ASM Bazzano - could you put ALS in Town Larry - given the money we could but could not giv eyou a time table, at least 2 years and then go through time of precept. If is not an easy process. Do not think would be done in 2-3 years. Not an easy task Len - you are correct on some parts. if the town would become paramedic services, there are two portions to be a parmedic. have to go to hospital and meet minimum delivery. it depnds on the model. if you hire all new people would be about 2 1/2 to 3 years. and depends on equiopment Bazzano - any person can be hired a paramediic? Len - can get certification Bazzano - could you hire people who are paramedics Len - yes you can - prove that there is a need - review your application - hopsital would have to provide the necessity, Chief and Town Manager - not an impossible task can get done. It is the will of the community but iti s also be a need to have additional people from other towns. Towns send help and they receive help. Bazzano - certificate of need, so ASM holds out license? primary service designation area Bazzano - if we decided we wanted to go and have a need for paramedic service, would ASM argue that? Len - yes they hold the franchise. if Chief Officer can prove that there is a necessity - entitled to hearing. There has not been a PSA taken away. Bazzano - so this would go before your office, so if ASM was to come forward and we don't find SW has this need Len - yes then a hearin gofficer would hear the case. Bazzano - I have a problem with that Len - gave background of this information. Bazzano - so we could have a paramedic in town but we would not need Len - ASM could have first right of refusal Bazzano - transport - if we have paramedic Len - could transport - if you decided had revenue to start - sit down with ASM to discuss Bazzano - do they do that anywhere else? Len - yes Bazzano -
recess 8:17 to go to Regular meeting
reconvened at 8:24
Anwar - challenge facing - need to look at ourselves in 2017 and beyond. The demographics of our town are changing. The number of students are decreasing and the number of seniors are increasing. Is there data out there that tells us when ALS becomes more important? Larry - ALS does not have boundaries at this time. We have had calls for everyone. I think you are correct as you get older the need may be more necessary. There are a lot of assisted living facilities for services. Would be hard pressed to give you an age. Anwar - there is data that shows the need for services. Len - the demographics different based on the community. There are online services that could be looked at. International (of Fire Chiefs) - but this is town specific. Anwar - The Tc is asking tht we need to think for 5-10 years down the road. Need to make policy changes. This is the time to have conversations. The terms BLS - what can BLS airway management, cpr, oxygen, allowed to give hefferin, there are things that area little advanced. Anwar - when trying to save, airway, breathing, - always start from BLS even if they are a paramedic. Larry - tiered effect that was talked about earlier. Anwar - each minute is critical - is there something that can be done. upgrade of services can be reviewed further. Larry - public awareness, community cpr training
Prague - the cost going to full time ambulance service would have profound effect on services of the town. How many people have died if we had ALS service over the last 10 years. have been serving 30 years how many volunteer? Larry - 1981 to 2002 Prague - lowest people paid 12.00 per hour. - we are into regionalization. if there was a large fire, other towns would be involved. this is the same type of thing. All the towns need to help eachother. Personal agendas shoudl not be used to promote this. for high volume times may want a parmedic. need to tread lightly in what we do.
Havens - Councillor Yagaloff - just is looking to what can be in the future. This is something that we could work towards and should not critize other people want.
Beaulieu - len - your own service would be 2 1/2 to 3 years. if you want to get someone who is already trained would be shorter period. Beaulieu - as ASM is sent out do we know their work history and how they have performed? Len - based on the fact - licensed paramedic service so they meet the state - Manchester Hopsital also has ongoing training and they have been to. if you hired your own folks they would not have the experience that others may have. the basic paramedic trainign is less than 50% of the training. There is a lot of on the job traiing. Beaulieu - ASM sitting in vacinity, who is in that in terms of experience? Len - the way the system is set up they have 8-10 hour day - the level of expeireince is not able to be tracked. there are protocols in place where minimum standards are required. Beaulieu - could have ASM could have two people who have two years or 2 people who have twenty years Mar - there are 20 of us - we sponsor 19 services - e have the regionalization - we operate under the mandates- 9-11 paramedics all over the place. there are extreme skills, continued education. if there is an issue we collaborate. There are stringent protocols and training to get to paramedics.
McCann - the state granting the licenses, based on need? Len - yes McCann - certificate of need is BLS services provided by SW - ALS Len - certificate need happened in the past McCann - in order to have SW to ALS that would be based on new certificate of need and would take away need for AMS and they could challenge Len - SW could go through certificate of need, the issue would be response of call - the two services could co-exist. usually come out with agreement. McCann - is SWAC ALS level could the area be restricted? no McCAnn - coudl go to calls McCann - may face same problems in another town when call in sw comes in? Len - yes that could also happen today Larry - we do respond to Town of Manchester and East HArtford, Windsor, we do have mutual aid agreements. That exists even today. McCann - could have more of the publci cpr trained. There is training provided by SW Ambulance Corp, Thursday, 6pm company 3
Snyder - this was very enlightening. Thanked the State - I have never heard anything bad about Ambulance Corps. in SW. If Larry see's anything that needs to be addressed, please come back to Town Council. Services are great.
Bazzano - have question I will email to Matt and have him forward to Larry. Deputy Chief Riggs, do you have copy of incident at Elssworth? times, who was called, responded? Riggs - 12/10/11 7:50 p.m. - first call - ASM dispatched at 7:52 p.m. - they were in route 7:57 - arrived 7:59 Bazzano - 911 was dialed, SW dispatch picked up - tried SW Ambulance first, yuo Riggs -arrival time 8:11 p.m. Bazzano - 20 minutes before ASM got there Larry - we were out on another call. ASM will autotically go if they know SW busy. Bazzano - do they tell how long they wil be Riggs - they do not give location. we did ask dispatch they would find out. Larry - when we respond we always say were we are responding from.
Chairman David Joy came forward to present the BOE proposed budget as shown in attached exhibit A
Mayor - the sooner we get questions to BOE the better to be ready for 4/3 Joint Mtg.
Yagaloff - thank you for the presentation from the BOE and Dr. Carter and her staff. From the initial budget there have been changes. I am inclined to support. Spending increase and what the gap is. ARA money and concessions from teachers. What would be the gap (dollar) the additional cost to the taxpayers in order to fund it. Last year's budget was good and this year I am inclined to also support the budget. Joy - seems like the information would have to come to the TM. Mr. Galligan has the budget. Delnicki - if the public has questions that they feel are important please send email so those questions can be addressed at the next meeting.
Snyder - have questions submitted to Clerk? Mayor - yes that would be good. Snyder - is this infomration on the web Joy - now that the Town Council has seen it it will be put on the website.
Havens - do not see any problems with budget. You made the TC's job simple.
7. Executive Session
A. To discuss three (3) possible tax assessment agreements which would result in disclosure of public records or information contained therein which is exempt from disclosure at this time pursuant to Connecticut General Statutes §1-210(b)(1) and §1-210(b)(5)(B).
B. To discuss a personnel issue, (Agreement between the Town of South Windsor Job Classification and Fringe Benefit Description for Non-Bargaining Unit Members).
Delnicki - certificate of need established around 9/11? TM - would hav eto go back and look. They look at level of care and dedcide Delnicki - paramedic would be great. could have paramedic call in town but they could be on call in another community even if call came through SW. having a paramedic unit does not guarantee that it will be in town. $500,000 - learning curve - Marge Latish was thanked. appreciated what you brought here tonight. Marge - if you need me at any time can contact us. we are always here to teach. Delnicki - Middlesex - hospital paramedic service. Delnicki - is that something that you will be considering ? Marge - no - there are various models and it is always what your town needs. Delnicki - woul dlike more dialogue on this issue. Roseann Williams, Deputy Chief Riggs,
take up on Regular meeting
8. Adjournment
McCann, Snyder, unanimous 9:04 p.m.
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